What happens if Biden gets his $15 minimum wage passed?

[Into the Night]

I'm sure you're aware of this, but you are debating economics with a yapping chihuahua. This guy has no clue.

Inversion fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

He was not asking any relevant questions merely alleging he must be Right simply for being on the right wing.

Evasion. Answer the questions put to you.

 

[Into the Night]

Not everyone is, thrown out of work.

Never said they were, dumbass. Pay attention.

Automatic stabilizers such as unemployment compensation help stabilize that situation.

Welfare is not employment. Neither does socialism increase economies.

And, higher paid labor creates more in demand

They aren't higher paid labor if they are thrown out of work.

and generates more in federal income tax revenue.

There is no tax revenue from welfare or people thrown out of work.

In the long run, the economy will still grow and need more labor.

Nope. It won't. Putting people out of work is not a growth of economy.

Besides, your point is disingenuous when capitalists have no problem downsizing for profit

Wage controls cause capitalists to downsize so they can maintain a profit.

instead of the people without any wage increases.

Wage controls cause capitalists to downsize so they can maintain a profit.

Price controls do not work.

 

[Into the Night]

lol. You must be on the right wing. You need rational arguments for rebuttal not merely projecting and using the argument you projected onto me by appealing to your right wing stone instead of reason. Typical of the right wing who have only fallacy, but still want to taken as seriously as the "gospel Truth".

Fallacy fallacy. Bulverism fallacy. Bigotry.

 

[Stretch]

So, what happens if Biden gets the minimum wage to $15 an hour?

Here's were the minimum wage is right now:

In many states that more than doubles it overnight. Given the current state of business closures for Chinese Disease, will they just decide to close for good in those states? Will employers be able to take that big a wage hit? Will the states with larger portions of the population at minimum wage take a bigger hit?

How will this affect workers making $15 an hour or more?

My prediction is it is one of many blows that the economy will take causing recovery to grind to a halt... Will Biden blame Trump for that?

More small businesses will go under. This goes hand in hand with the plandemic to kill off the middle class business sector. The left wants
nothing but all-powerful wealthy elites and the dirt poor. Reliable, responsible self-sustaining middle class has got to go.

 

[Into the Night]

I agree to disagree. It is public policies than can make the difference in a mixed market economy. Besides, there are no true capitalism economies beyond the third world. Anarcho-Capitalism only worked for a relatively, little while until the fall of Mogadishu. Capitalism is about boom and bust and that form of inequality and is the reason we have socialism.

Capitalism has one and only one definition. Socialism has one and only one definition. There is no 'mixture'.

Capitalism is about equality. Everyone has equal opportunity to go out and create wealth.
Socialism is about inequality. Only the 'elite' or the 'welfare recipient' receives wealth. Wealth is stolen from productive member of society and given to unproductive members of society.

Socialism comes in two major forms: fascism, and communism.
Fascism is government control of markets.
Communism is government ownership of markets.

Capitalism has boom and bust cycles, but they automatically correct themselves. Socialism is only a bust. It produces nothing.

 

[Into the Night]

Our wage and wealth gap indicate an inequality that is the antithesis of socialism. Socialism is not the driver of the US economy. Capitalism is. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have the economic inequality that we have now.

There is no such thing as a 'wage and wealth gap'. Buzzword fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Congress commands fiscal policy and the fed commands monetary policy. Why do you believe (socialism) commanding an economy is not a driver of that economy?

Socialism does not work. It only brings misery. It is theft of wealth.

 

[Into the Night]

Government is spending is fiscal policy that Congress commands and controls. Our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror are sufficient proof. We have a command economy not free market capitalism.

You are correctly pointing out the fascist policies implemented so far by Democrats and RINOs.

A free market exists. You can't kill it. See your local drug dealer or smuggler for details.

 

[danielpalos]

It does not create more demand. Putting people out of work does not create more demand in the economy. It also generates LESS tax revenue.

Only considering the short run equilibrium is special pleading (a typical right wing modus operandi). Higher paid labor creates more in demand. The multiplier effect does the rest in the long run. And, higher paid labor also generates more in tax revenue. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage generates over nine times more federal income tax revenue than does the current minimum wage. So, from that perspective, anything less than a nine to one ratio of personnel getting laid off would still generate more federal income tax revenue from labor still working.

From another perspective that shows no taxes paid from labor making less than forty thousand a year, savings to the public sector still occur due to less earned income tax credit revenue claimed by labor with a higher income. And, that labor still creates more demand and still generate more general tax revenue by simply spending more money.

 

[danielpalos]

Math and history.

No, it didn't. Destruction of wealth is not useful.

Destruction of wealth is not an economy. Unemployment numbers are not an economy either..

So you say. Care to explain how that would happen? What was observed is different from what you claim.

 

[danielpalos]

Inflation is not growth. Money that is worth less than it was before it not growth. Money is not wealth. You are using 'mulitplier effect' as a buzzword...meaningless.

A rise in wages could be considered that form of inflation. You are claiming it does not result in growth of any demand or supply. Wages outpacing inflation and the multiplier is still considered growth, ceteris paribus.

 

[danielpalos]

Capitalism has one and only one definition. Socialism has one and only one definition. There is no 'mixture'.

Capitalism is about equality. Everyone has equal opportunity to go out and create wealth.
Socialism is about inequality. Only the 'elite' or the 'welfare recipient' receives wealth. Wealth is stolen from productive member of society and given to unproductive members of society.

Socialism comes in two major forms: fascism, and communism.
Fascism is government control of markets.
Communism is government ownership of markets.

Capitalism has boom and bust cycles, but they automatically correct themselves. Socialism is only a bust. It produces nothing.

Only if you limit yourself to dictionary definitions invented for the Cold War. Relying on (simplistic) dictionary definitions is special pleading. An encyclopedic definition is much more comprehensive. And yes, we do have a mixed market economy not true capitalism. Government is social-ism (socialism) not free market capitalism.

How did you reach that conclusion? Capitalism is about boom and bust and inequality based on price differentials, demand and supply, and the ability to arbitrage.

Socialism is about equality and in our case about equal protection of the laws. Capitalism offers no such protections. Slavery was part of Capitalism not Socialism.

Socialism is about social order. Government secures that via the coercive use of force. Democratic socialism is to the left of national socialism.

The collapse of the bronze Age was a capital bust, along with 1929. Socialism is about correcting for market failures when necessary.

 

[danielpalos]

Socialism does not work. It only brings misery. It is theft of wealth.

Socialism works anywhere Government works. Anarcho-Capitalism failed with the fall of Mogadishu. All capital economies without government are third world not first world.

 

[danielpalos]

You are correctly pointing out the fascist policies implemented so far by Democrats and RINOs.

A free market exists. You can't kill it. See your local drug dealer or smuggler for details.

There is no free market since the fall of Mogadishu.

 

[Bulletbob]

Well, it would appear that according to your map human misery in the US would be approximately cut in half with a doubling of menial wages.

no it would not at all, there would be temporary benefits to low income workers .
first employers will try to improve productivity by cutting jobs they can no long to afford to pay for, also I see more automation , and as anyone who is not dead from the neck up would know it will drive up cost. Also it will end up causing more jobs going overseas.
with prices going up it will hurt the very workers who you claim it will help by them having to pay more for everything and fewer jobs being available.
everything from parts for cars to a fast food hamburger will increase in price.

Im not against small increases in minimum wage to account for inflation but the true way to help people and improve there income is learning a trade that is marketable and has value, in other words people have to better themself not just want more. I wanted more when I was young growing up on a farm and dong hard labor at home and for my first jobs but eventually got sick of it and went to a trade school and started the process of making my self marketable and valuable .
If the industry s I was in I took the combines skills I had developed and applied them to other industry's and was willing to travel .

Its just a common sense thing , you either make your self marketable and valuable to employers or you dont and put your self in dead in jobs that have low wages little benefits and no future./

 

[Into the Night]

Only considering the short run equilibrium is special pleading (a typical right wing modus operandi).

What equilibrium??? Straw man fallacy. Fallacy fallacy.

Higher paid labor creates more in demand.

People out of work make no wage.

The multiplier effect does the rest in the long run.

People out of work make no wage.

And, higher paid labor also generates more in tax revenue.

People out of work make no wage.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage generates over nine times more federal income tax revenue than does the current minimum wage.

People out of work make no wage.

So, from that perspective, anything less than a nine to one ratio of personnel getting laid off would still generate more federal income tax revenue from labor still working.

People out of work make no wage. Argument from randU fallacy. You are making up numbers again.

From another perspective that shows no taxes paid from labor making less than forty thousand a year, savings to the public sector still occur due to less earned income tax credit revenue claimed by labor with a higher income. And, that labor still creates more demand and still generate more general tax revenue by simply spending more money.

People out of work make no wage.

Price controls do not work. Wage controls are price controls. It is government interference of markets. That's fascism. Price controls always cause shortages. Companies will cut back on it's employees to stay profitable. They have to. Wage controls put people out of work.

 

[Into the Night]

So you say. Care to explain how that would happen? What was observed is different from what you claim.

Hallucinations are not an observation.

 

[Into the Night]

A rise in wages could be considered that form of inflation.

Nope. It's fascism. Inflation is caused by printing money faster than wealth being created. That is the only cause.

You are claiming it does not result in growth of any demand or supply.

People out of work make no wages.

Wages outpacing inflation and the multiplier is still considered growth, ceteris paribus.

People out of work make no wages. You are still using 'multiplier' like a buzzword.

 

[Into the Night]

Only if you limit yourself to dictionary definitions invented for the Cold War.

Dictionaries do not define words. Denial of history. Capitalism existed before the cold war and will exist long after. Socialism existed before the cold war and will exist long after.

Relying on (simplistic) dictionary definitions is special pleading.

Fallacy fallacy. False authority fallacy. Dictionaries do not define words.

An encyclopedic definition is much more comprehensive.

False authority fallacy. Encyclopedias do not define words either. No dictionary or encyclopedia owns any word.

And yes, we do have a mixed market economy not true capitalism.

True Scotsman fallacy. Capitalism and socialism are not governments or nations.

Government is social-ism (socialism) not free market capitalism.

Capitalism and socialism are not governments or nations.

How did you reach that conclusion?

RQAA.

Capitalism is about boom and bust

Already said this. The booms and busts of capitalism are self correcting.

and inequality

WRONG. Capitalism is about equal opportunity for all. ANYONE can play. ANYONE can go out and create wealth.

based on price differentials,

Capitalism is not prices. Neither is socialism.

demand and supply,

Capitalism is based on supply and demand. Socialism is based on government interventions, and attempts to control markets by people that have no idea what the market is.

and the ability to arbitrage.

Nope. It's about price discovery, not arbitrage.

Socialism is about equality

WRONG. Socialism steals wealth from the productive, and gives it to the unproductive. It is theft of wealth. That is INEQUALITY.

and in our case about equal protection of the laws.

WRONG. The productive are not treated the same as the unproductive in the eyes of the law.

Capitalism offers no such protections.

Capitalism requires no government. It is self recovering. It does not need government protection. People protect it already themselves.

Slavery was part of Capitalism not Socialism.

Slavery is socialism. It is theft of wealth from the slaves, who do the work and create the wealth, so the slave owner, who is unproductive, can keep it.

Socialism is about social order.

WRONG. Socialism is theft of wealth. It is rife with revolts, government overthrow, retaliations by government against their own people, and misery.

Government secures that via the coercive use of force.

Socialism can only be implemented by oligarchies or dictatorships. People don't like their wealth being stolen.

Democratic socialism is to the left of national socialism.

Socialism is not a form of government. Socialism is not a country.

The collapse of the bronze Age was a capital bust,

Nope. The Bronze Age ended with the Iron Age started. New and improved methods of making things fundamentally changed society. Capitalism. BTW, bronze is still used today in many places (including engine bearings, marine equipment, musical instruments, etc.

along with 1929.

The crash of '29' was a result of over speculation brought about by Wilson's policies, the creation of the Federal Reserve, and WW1. The resulting downturn was worldwide. Similar to the 2007 crash, caused for much of the same reasons as the 2001 crash, just a different market of over speculation.

Not capitalism. Gambling.

FDR's response by expanding government and interfering with markets extended this downturn into a depression that lasted until he left office and well after WW2 ended. By then, the inflation was now effectively institutionalized, and has been with us ever since. The U.S. government is now broke. It cannot pay for itself without printing funky money to pay for it, which only sets up a spiral. A cash crash is now inevitable, it's only a matter of time. People are already looking for an alternative currency. No government can stop it.

Socialism is about correcting for market failures when necessary.

Socialism IS a market failure. It is theft of wealth.