91% of Trump voters sticking by him despite Capitol Hill riot

[Micawber]

Then a lot of treasonous morons will be lined up to visit Trump in jail.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

What a load of shit. The only ones who think the election was stolen are ignorant trump nazi's. Trump is the ONLY one saying it was stolen and he is the least likely person to know what the fuck he is talking about. Every person in charge of elections who knows what they are talking about (and most of them republicans) say there was no stolen election, your shithead lost.

Then maybe you should tell Frank Luntz that. He's the one who did the focus group and polling, not me. That's what he found and you can see the actual questions and response summary earlier in this thread. This isn't about the people running the election and what they say or believe. It's what people on the street believe. Whether it was "stolen" or not, a big chunk of the American population thinks there was fraudulent activity, miscounting, and other irregularities in the election. That is a problem whether you like it or not. If people have no faith in the system it doesn't matter if the system works or not. That becomes a problem in and of itself.

Oh, and by the way, insulting those people endlessly and proclaiming they're crazy without bothering to prove the validity of the election very clearly, won't change their minds. Instead, it is likely to make them dig on their view there was a problem.

 

[Nordberg]

Then maybe you should tell Frank Luntz that. He's the one who did the focus group and polling, not me. That's what he found and you can see the actual questions and response summary earlier in this thread. This isn't about the people running the election and what they say or believe. It's what people on the street believe. Whether it was "stolen" or not, a big chunk of the American population thinks there was fraudulent activity, miscounting, and other irregularities in the election. That is a problem whether you like it or not. If people have no faith in the system it doesn't matter if the system works or not. That becomes a problem in and of itself.

Oh, and by the way, insulting those people endlessly and proclaiming they're crazy without bothering to prove the validity of the election very clearly, won't change their minds. Instead, it is likely to make them dig on their view there was a problem.

When they are believing lies and conspiracies, you have to point it out. You cannot change the minds of people who are conned and believe in conspiracies. However, not all are as deep into it as you and others on this board. Perhaps some can be reached. TBS is powerful. The con is deep.

 

[BartenderElite]

Then maybe you should tell Frank Luntz that. He's the one who did the focus group and polling, not me. That's what he found and you can see the actual questions and response summary earlier in this thread. This isn't about the people running the election and what they say or believe. It's what people on the street believe. Whether it was "stolen" or not, a big chunk of the American population thinks there was fraudulent activity, miscounting, and other irregularities in the election. That is a problem whether you like it or not. If people have no faith in the system it doesn't matter if the system works or not. That becomes a problem in and of itself.

Oh, and by the way, insulting those people endlessly and proclaiming they're crazy without bothering to prove the validity of the election very clearly, won't change their minds. Instead, it is likely to make them dig on their view there was a problem.

The bolded reminds me of something Trump tweeted early on after the election. Paraphrasing, but he said Biden should have to prove that he got 80 million votes.

Since when? Since when is the onus of proof on the one being accused?

It's Trump and his followers that are yelling "massive fraud." THEY are the ones that need to offer proof, and evidence. And it has to be evidence that holds up to scrutiny - not 'look at the pictures of them pulling suitcases full of ballots out from under the desk.' Which was completely explained, if anyone even bothered to pay attention.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The bolded reminds me of something Trump tweeted early on after the election. Paraphrasing, but he said Biden should have to prove that he got 80 million votes.

Since when? Since when is the onus of proof on the one being accused?

It's Trump and his followers that are yelling "massive fraud." THEY are the ones that need to offer proof, and evidence. And it has to be evidence that holds up to scrutiny - not 'look at the pictures of them pulling suitcases full of ballots out from under the desk.' Which was completely explained, if anyone even bothered to pay attention.

Biden doesn't have to prove anything. On the other hand, how does the cumulative vote total go negative in several states? In the "pulling suitcases" one, how was it adequately explained? Where is that? You claim it was completely explained. Please provide the links that show that.

 

[BartenderElite]

Biden doesn't have to prove anything. On the other hand, how does the cumulative vote total go negative in several states? In the "pulling suitcases" one, how was it adequately explained? Where is that? You claim it was completely explained. Please provide the links that show that.

What do you mean, "vote total go negative?" What is that supposed to mean?

I'm not going to link, anything. The onus of proof is NOT on me, or on anyone who thinks this was a normal election, which it was.

Know what the suitcases were? They were actual cases - because they put ballots in cases. People don't just load them up in their hands & arms and carry them into the room. They're actually put in cases.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

What do you mean, "vote total go negative?" What is that supposed to mean?

I'm not going to link, anything. The onus of proof is NOT on me, or on anyone who thinks this was a normal election, which it was.

Know what the suitcases were? They were actual cases - because they put ballots in cases. People don't just load them up in their hands & arms and carry them into the room. They're actually put in cases.

I meant exactly what I said.

That's an example. How does Trump lose votes that were cast? No one can vote against Trump. They can only vote for Biden or another alternative to Trump. Yet, the vote count goes negative, and goes there by big amounts. Nobody is saying how that happened.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...-dumps-remainder-votes-possessed-biden-trump/

That is the most obvious of the irregularities in vote counting to occur. How does someone lose votes already cast and counted? And, lose them by the thousands or even tens of thousands?

Another irregularity is batches of votes coming in that are 100% for Biden. That too is a statistical impossibility--or very, very close to it. How can you have say a vote batch dump (upload from some voting district) that is say 5,000 votes for Biden 0 for Trump?

There should be great cause for concern that poll watchers were sometimes refused or turned away from being able to observe. In other cases, they were forced to stay at a distance where they couldn't see clearly what was going on with vote counting. That too is irrefutable. There's sworn testimony of it occurring, video of it occurring, and personal accounts on top of that.

Does none of that concern you?

 

[BartenderElite]

I meant exactly what I said.

That's an example. How does Trump lose votes that were cast? No one can vote against Trump. They can only vote for Biden or another alternative to Trump. Yet, the vote count goes negative, and goes there by big amounts. Nobody is saying how that happened.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...-dumps-remainder-votes-possessed-biden-trump/

That is the most obvious of the irregularities in vote counting to occur. How does someone lose votes already cast and counted? And, lose them by the thousands or even tens of thousands?

Another irregularity is batches of votes coming in that are 100% for Biden. That too is a statistical impossibility--or very, very close to it. How can you have say a vote batch dump (upload from some voting district) that is say 5,000 votes for Biden 0 for Trump?

There should be great cause for concern that poll watchers were sometimes refused or turned away from being able to observe. In other cases, they were forced to stay at a distance where they couldn't see clearly what was going on with vote counting. That too is irrefutable. There's sworn testimony of it occurring, video of it occurring, and personal accounts on top of that.

Does none of that concern you?

Have you tried fact-checking these allegations?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Have you tried fact-checking these allegations?

Yes, but is increasingly hard to find even scraps of evidence that existed a week or two ago, let alone over a month or more, on it. I suspect that in part--in part--the various search engine companies are either downgrading these or eradicating them. That too should give you pause to question things.

It's not that I'm for Trump or against Biden here. I want to know the election was valid and that the results were honest. I really do question that in the results of several states now.

It should be a concern for you too. If a large block of the public doesn't trust the results of elections, things will only get worse.

 

[BartenderElite]

Yes, but is increasingly hard to find even scraps of evidence that existed a week or two ago, let alone over a month or more, on it. I suspect that in part--in part--the various search engine companies are either downgrading these or eradicating them. That too should give you pause to question things.

It's not that I'm for Trump or against Biden here. I want to know the election was valid and that the results were honest. I really do question that in the results of several states now.

It should be a concern for you too. If a large block of the public doesn't trust the results of elections, things will only get worse.

I feel bad that many don't trust the results, but there is nothing I can do about that. There is an endless amount of disinformation out there.

Everything you mentioned, and everything else, has been exhaustively researched and fact-checked. Nothing has held up. Nothing.

I can't do anything about propaganda.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Yes, but is increasingly hard to find even scraps of evidence that existed a week or two ago, let alone over a month or more, on it. I suspect that in part--in part--the various search engine companies are either downgrading these or eradicating them. That too should give you pause to question things.

It's not that I'm for Trump or against Biden here. I want to know the election was valid and that the results were honest. I really do question that in the results of several states now.

It should be a concern for you too. If a large block of the public doesn't trust the results of elections, things will only get worse.

It only gets worse from here.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Yes, but is increasingly hard to find even scraps of evidence that existed a week or two ago, let alone over a month or more, on it. I suspect that in part--in part--the various search engine companies are either downgrading these or eradicating them. That too should give you pause to question things.

It's not that I'm for Trump or against Biden here. I want to know the election was valid and that the results were honest. I really do question that in the results of several states now.

It should be a concern for you too. If a large block of the public doesn't trust the results of elections, things will only get worse.

Where do you obtain your facts? How do you know every email or post response isn't a bot just feeding you what you want for their profit? TANSTAAFL

 

[cawacko]

Yes, but is increasingly hard to find even scraps of evidence that existed a week or two ago, let alone over a month or more, on it. I suspect that in part--in part--the various search engine companies are either downgrading these or eradicating them. That too should give you pause to question things.

It's not that I'm for Trump or against Biden here. I want to know the election was valid and that the results were honest. I really do question that in the results of several states now.

It should be a concern for you too. If a large block of the public doesn't trust the results of elections, things will only get worse.

When liberals claimed Bush stole 2000 & ‘04 did you have the same “we should look into this because the public won’t trust the elections” attitude?

If you believe Trump won no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise. There are numerous conspiracies sites out there, like Gateway Pundit, that will come up with something new each time a claim they present gets debunked.

Not that we should be sheep and not question things but it’s a very bi-partisan belief that we don’t lose elections anymore, they are all stolen. Not good.

 

[Bill]

Yes, but is increasingly hard to find even scraps of evidence that existed a week or two ago, let alone over a month or more, on it. I suspect that in part--in part--the various search engine companies are either downgrading these or eradicating them. That too should give you pause to question things.

It's not that I'm for Trump or against Biden here. I want to know the election was valid and that the results were honest. I really do question that in the results of several states now.

It should be a concern for you too. If a large block of the public doesn't trust the results of elections, things will only get worse.

Just another big fat plot...... I bet zuck did it & that guy from Goggle...........

 

[BartenderElite]

When liberals claimed Bush stole 2000 & ‘04 did you have the same “we should look into this because the public won’t trust the elections” attitude?

If you believe Trump won no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise. There are numerous conspiracies sites out there, like Gateway Pundit, that will come up with something new each time a claim they present gets debunked.

Not that we should be sheep and not question things but it’s a very bi-partisan belief that we don’t lose elections anymore, they are all stolen. Not good.

When Gore lost in 2000, it was tough. I remember what happened in one of the county's w/ the ballot - I think it was Palm Beach. A ton of people voted for Buchanan, when it was clear they wanted to vote for Gore, and a correct tally would have turned the result. There were also all kinds of reports of thousands of votes being discarded in Miami Dade, and things along those lines.

I was never like "they stole it," or "Bush isn't legit." The way I saw it, the election was basically a tie, and Bush won the coin flip. You can cry about it, or just move on to the next election.

This one wasn't even that close. Biden won nationally by millions of votes.

Elections are too emotional, and people take them too seriously. Not that they aren't serious business, with big consequences - but people talk like it's the end of the world if their candidate doesn't win. Most of our lives stay relatively the same no matter who is in charge.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

When liberals claimed Bush stole 2000 & ‘04 did you have the same “we should look into this because the public won’t trust the elections” attitude?

If you believe Trump won no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise. There are numerous conspiracies sites out there, like Gateway Pundit, that will come up with something new each time a claim they present gets debunked.

Not that we should be sheep and not question things but it’s a very bi-partisan belief that we don’t lose elections anymore, they are all stolen. Not good.

I have long said we need much stricter and controlled elections to avoid these things. I advocate for 100% voter ID, voting in person with the fewest exceptions possible for mail-in voting. I oppose vote collection ideas like ballot harvesting. Now, I could see mailing ballots out early to voters so they can fill theirs out at their leisure, then they show up at a polling station, show their ID, dip their finger in indelible ink or some other metric that would make it difficult or impossible for them to vote again, and have their ballot counted in a secure manner with observers present to ensure that is the case.

I don't know if Trump won or lost. It's likely he did lose, but there is sufficient irregularities to put that in question. I want the election to be open, honest, and as verifiable as possible. A paper trail does that to a good degree. No electronic voting with no paper trail going with it. Americans need good confidence that their elections are open and honest. If they aren't or they are given cause to question the outcomes then we are descending into being a banana republic, or worse.

 

[cawacko]

When Gore lost in 2000, it was tough. I remember what happened in one of the county's w/ the ballot - I think it was Palm Beach. A ton of people voted for Buchanan, when it was clear they wanted to vote for Gore, and a correct tally would have turned the result. There were also all kinds of reports of thousands of votes being discarded in Miami Dade, and things along those lines.

I was never like "they stole it," or "Bush isn't legit." The way I saw it, the election was basically a tie, and Bush won the coin flip. You can cry about it, or just move on to the next election.

This one wasn't even that close. Biden won nationally by millions of votes.

Elections are too emotional, and people take them too seriously. Not that they aren't serious business, with big consequences - but people talk like it's the end of the world if their candidate doesn't win. Most of our lives stay relatively the same no matter who is in charge.

I get that no one likes to lose. As you stated, it’s not fun. I also get that it’s hard when you are passionate about the person who loses, as many Trump supporters are. And yes, if you feel something is stolen then that makes it even more difficult to accept. Those are all understandable feelings.

But yeah, at this point no amount of evidence will ever convince them Trump lost. Nothing we can do.

It’s sort of like there people who still believe OJ was innocent. Oh wait, bad analogy, he is.

 

[Bill]

I don't know if Trump won or lost. It's likely he did lose,

Slowly but surely you are coming back to reality.......

I hope your example sets a precedent for the precedent & his adoring admirers..........

 

[cawacko]

I have long said we need much stricter and controlled elections to avoid these things. I advocate for 100% voter ID, voting in person with the fewest exceptions possible for mail-in voting. I oppose vote collection ideas like ballot harvesting. Now, I could see mailing ballots out early to voters so they can fill theirs out at their leisure, then they show up at a polling station, show their ID, dip their finger in indelible ink or some other metric that would make it difficult or impossible for them to vote again, and have their ballot counted in a secure manner with observers present to ensure that is the case.

I don't know if Trump won or lost. It's likely he did lose, but there is sufficient irregularities to put that in question. I want the election to be open, honest, and as verifiable as possible. A paper trail does that to a good degree. No electronic voting with no paper trail going with it. Americans need good confidence that their elections are open and honest. If they aren't or they are given cause to question the outcomes then we are descending into being a banana republic, or worse.

You don't know if he won or lost? I mean, the election wasn't that close. At the end of the day you're obviously free to believe whatever you like. And if you think the election was stolen it probably feels better than acknowledging he lost. We've voted by mail for years in California. I do it in person but everyone else in my family does mail in. I'm always for watching out for vote fraud and making sure everything is done on the up and up but a lot of people appreciate the convenience.

 

[Bill]

I get that no one likes to lose. As you stated, it’s not fun. I also get that it’s hard when you are passionate about the person who loses, as many Trump supporters are. And yes, if you feel something is stolen then that makes it even more difficult to accept. Those are all understandable feelings.

But yeah, at this point no amount of evidence will ever convince them Trump lost. Nothing we can do.

It’s sort of like there people who still believe OJ was innocent. Oh wait, bad analogy, he is.

Exactly, it is based on emotion, not facts~ so facts are never going to change that..

Only "facts" they want to see are those that reinforce their biases & illusions.......

Slowly & patiently some of them will be able to gently unwrap the house of cards & duct tape they built in their heads & rejoin the real world..

Some I am afraid will be lost forever & will follow the pied piper of mara logo to tumpO lala land & be fleeced & flogged w/ lies for ever & ever